Happy Furry Puppy Story Time with Norbizness

one thing i hear a few places in NYC USED to do (back when things weren't so strict and they could get away with it) is have a "smoking jar" where smokers put in a couple bucks now and again, and when they were fined, they just used the jar money. but i think the fines got too big in the city. or something.

plus i know smokers who like the fact they won't go home smelling like a smoke ball at the end of the night.

alternately, there are places i go in NY where people smoke anyway. It depends on how strictly the rules are enforced.

there might be some hope if it passes.

that said, i wouldn't want to hurt the little places. And the fact that there's a compromise already in place leads me to believe its superfluous. but my opinions are moot, cause i've been to Austin once. Once.

You know one of those theoretical people who would like to go to clubs but can't because of the smoke is our beloved Susie from Suburban Guerilla. I'm just saying . . .

Amen to the pot smoke screen point my son!

Ohh, but someone's precious clothesie-wosies won't smell downie-fresh!

Poor widdle babies!

To defend California for a second, Austin tried to become what Texans 'imagine' California to be like during the tech boom. It's kind of like accusing Chevy's Fresh-Mex of trying to become like Mexico, which is to say it gives everyone gas but makes christian soccer moms feel like a world traveler.

Here is my lonely comment in defense of a smoking ban. I am a non-smoker. Cigarette smoke hurts my throat, lungs and eyes. When enough people around me are smoking, it feels like I may asphyxiate on the spot. Why should I have to be in pain, just so some hipsters can try to look cool?

Amen to jenna. But, I know as an asthmatic I should just stay home and leave the cool hipsters alone. I'm not cool enough, anyway. Or, at least, stay in evil California all my life.

Besides, isn't The Left on the bandwagon of avoiding companies that keep the far right and Rethugs funded? Big Tobacco, anyone?

As an ex-smoker, I seem to be particularly sensitive to tobacco smoke. I don't care for it at all.

But I think anti-smoking laws are stupid. Why? It's like this: put a person in a 20x30' room with a chainsmoker with a case (not a carton, a case) of cigarettes. Put another person in the same size room with a running car with a full tank of gas.

The first person can't stop the smoker from smoking. The second person can't shut off the car.

Which will die first?

Which means you should really be concerned about:

• smoking? or
• cars?

BK: Are you under the impression that banning smoking at clubs stops me from smoking, period? Or avoiding Philip Morris? For the record, I support the $1 a pack cigarette tax increase that's taken years to get out of the Texas Legislature, and that will hopefully cut into the profits of Philip Morris. When other people quit smoking. Not me, I'm gonna pony up the cash.

And I'm guessing that you're an asthmatic Californian that doesn't live in smog-ridden LA, as smog causes 6 million asthma attacks per year and is linked to asthma in kids. When do asthmatic Los Angelinos get their own air pollution ban initiative?

(2a) Cigarette smoke provides at least a visual screen for pot smoke. Back me up here, people.

Hm, I had been in the smoker-whose-ultimately-become-okay-with-going-outside camp, but shit I forgot about that. Lot harder to get cover at bigger concert halls, that's for sure, and no re-entry shows make it tough to recharge.

Now I gotta rethink this.

As far as the "poor widdle ______" whatever arguments, yeah, I've heard those before. I've even made that argument in that tone. Wish I'd known what I sounded like when I was doing it. There's better ways to get that point across.

Look, lock me up in a gagarge with a running car and I will die. Lock me up in a garage with a carton of Winstons and I'm having a party. I will stop smoking when car owners stop driving.

oops, that's garage.

Just outta curiosity, is there a big push for people that wanna allow running 4 stroke engines in bars? I had no idea.

It is not all paradise in Commentsland.

I think all issues regarding the perils of secondhand smoke in bars are potentially solveable by means other than a total ban on smoking. For instance, many acts have a non-smoking show early and a smoking show later. Also, there are enough non-smoking venues in Austin that it should be possible to convince your favorite act to perform in both species of joint.

I'm a nonsmoker, but I hang out in enough casinos that secondhand smoke has switched categories from 'hazard' to 'flavor'.

Oh, thank god you brought up the fucking smog issue. The godforsaken yuppie influx and all the SUVs had done more to give me problems with my asthma than any night bar-hopping in Austin could. I have to admit, my asthma, which is classified as "severe" and is definitely hereditary, makes it hard for me to swallow people's claims to massive suffering after going out. Then again, maybe a childhood spent in hospitals made me impervious to pain....

You should see what it's done to some of the bars/restaurants here in Dallas. Particularly the ones that were a mix of both. GBGs used to be a place to get a good drink and a great steak, now you only go there for dinner. You go next door to Mick's for the drink. They haven't seen any increase in their dinner crowd, but a huge loss in their bar buisness. So now they don't carry as many premiums as they did, which means even less bar business.

We used to have a few no-smoking music venues, but they shut those down to build Home Depots and the like.

not all asthmatics react the same way to smoke. i'm asthmatic (also hereditary; aunt died from it) and sometimes i can deal with it, but sometimes i really, really can't. and some clubs are ventilated better than others.

second hand smoke is poisonous. asthmatics who react to it are just a little bit more immediately sensitive to the toxin.

Hi from New York State, home of the indoor smoking ban!

I'm a smoker, and I got used to it. Granted, I'm not a big fan of going outside in subzero temperatures, but something tells me that that isn't a big issue in Texas. So long as I can still feed my yummy addiction without endangering others, I'm OK with it. And stepping outside ain't a huge deal.

(Which is not to excuse those whining about the way their clothes smell- God, get a grip! Or better yet, stay home- somebody might breathe on you!)

They're talking about doing this in Charlotte, NC. That's NORTH FUCKIN CAROLINA for God's sake! How can you ban smoking in the place that perfected it?!

My opinion is that they should leave it up to the owners of the bars/restaurants/venues. If they don't want anyone to smoke, make it all no-smoking and kick out anyone who lights up. if it hurts their business, it's their fault. If not, good for them.

Heh. I used to go to those "Big Smoke" events in New York - the ones sponsored by Cigar Aficionado - and I will tell you that I have never seen so many happy looking men in one place. 1,600 guys (and quite a few ladies) walking around with big stogies and shit-eating grins.

I wonder how long it took the Marriott to get the smell out. I had to dry-clean my suit twice...but it was so worth it.

Any asthmatic walking within a bowshot of that place would've keeled over, stone dead.

Epidemiologists have estimated that bar-workers tend to inhale about 1/5 of a cigarette/day if they work in a particularly smokey place. And at that rate, they'll be dead in 200 years! What it comes down to is that the smell of it bugs people, and the type of people who would've been compatriots of Carry Nation had they been born a century ago decided to link that irksome smell to the threat of deadly and dangerous danger and death, using the tried-and-true Bush Administration policy method of deciding on a result first and working backwards via rigged studies.

Christ, this bugs me.

And pro-ban New Yorkers -- bullshit. It "works" here only because us kool kids have found the smokeeasies. Thus proving the libertarian argument that, in this case at least, the market shall provide.

Lest you think I'm making shit up.

The problem with the data on passive smoking (and many other potential environmental hazards) is that the estimated risks are so close to zero.
-Canadian Medical Association Journal

I was at a vegan juice bar last weekend where they had a Gypsy violinist who would wait for people to open their mouths and then fire well-done steak straight into their gobs. Also they had that "Tom's Bob's Carol's Steakhouse" essence loaded into the fog machine so that the vegans spent the next two days trying to scrub the scent of mesquite-smoked animal protein out of their hair and clothing.

But did the sprout-eaters complain? Heck no! It's all in fun. The guy with the wrist-rocket was a dead shot, by the way. No worries. A good time was had by all, thanks to Dr. Heimlich.

I should mention that I eat only diatoms and blue-green algae and consider vegans barbaric and untouchable, but they had a rockin' jam scheduled and I figured what's the worst that can happen? Is it not written in the book of 311, "Don't stay home"? Well then.

You know, what is up with this? Am I the only one left on earth who feels that you *need* to come home from a night of great music/drinking/dancing smelling absolutely awful, or it just wasn't worth it? Smoking's got a self-destructive edge that you just can't beat.

I run marathons & I smoke. People always ask me how I can do that. The important thing is to not sweat all over your cigs.

I'm a considerate smoker and I am against an outright ban. There are plenty of places that are non-smoking without a ban. Plus, I don't like using the government as nanny. When I go out for a beer, I want a smoke with my beer. To the folks who think we should all go outside; I can't bring my beer with me. I want to sip my beer, take a drag, sip my my beer, take a drag, ect. I don't want to go outside. If you can't take the smoke, I don't see why we have to go to the same places. Your point on "other" smoke is right-on too!

I need to smoke everywhere all the time if I want to get that voicebox I've had my eye on...

i don't smoke OR drive. i walk or take public trans everywhere.

so what do i win?!

until the rapture...
xoxo, jared

I've lived through these things in California, New York, and now Minneapolis. I have a smoking history of: smoke...don't smoke...smoke...don't smoke. During the times I didn't smoke (we're talking 2-5 year stretches)I was very sensitive to cigarette smoke. So, I would go places that didn't allow it (never a shortage it seemed to me). When I've been smoking, I go places that do allow it. Seemed pretty simple. The bans have always irked me, whether in a smoking or non-smoking phase of me life. In the last fifteen years, anyway, I've never had a problem finding whichever environment suited me (pre-ban).

I smoke, and I enjoy smoking while drinking, but that's not why I oppose this bill.

The government has no place in this debate. If there is a big market for non-smoking bars, then businness will create non-smoking bars. It's that simple folks. I don't want government to make any laws prohibiting freedom. Let the bar ownwers and customers fight this out.